The Charles Johnson / LGF Connection (UPDATED)

Anders Behring Breivik’s Manifesto

After perusing Charles Johnson’s irrational and slanderous attacks on Fjordman, Pamela Geller, and others, let’s look at some facts.

I downloaded Breivik’s “Manifesto,” as a Word document file and performed a simple search/replace to determine the frequency of mentions of relevant names and blog sites. Caveat: I have not read the entire “manifesto,” I may not read it, and I cannot confirm its authenticity.

Source:
 http://www.2shared.com/file/M-s-2fBD/2083-AEuropeanDeclarationofInd.html

“Charles Johnson” and “Johnson” is mentioned 17 times;  “Little Green Footballs” and “LGF” is mentioned 16 times.

[Note that there are references to “Marguerite Johnson,” “The Johnson Boys,””Tim Johnson,””Allen Johnson,” and they are not included in the tally.That totals 33 for Charles Johnson, not counting footnotes.]

“Geller” is mentioned 1 time; “Atlasshrugs” is mentioned 12 times.
[Pamela Geller totals 13.]

Other related searches:
“Fjordman” is mentioned 111 times.
“Spencer” is mentioned 55 times.
Jihadwatch” is mentioned 155 times.
“Geert Wilders” is mentioned 15 times.
“David Duke” is mentioned 3 times.
“English Defense League,” “English Defence League” and “EDF” is mentioned 11 times.

Here are Anders Behring Breivik’s own unedited words as expressed in his “Manifesto.” The references to Charles Johnson and Little Green Footballs are in the order in which they appear, and I’ve attempted to keep the comments in context. The bold text is my own.

[UPDATE: APPARENTLY THE “MANIFESTO” IS A HOAX. Regardless, the point of this post still stands, that Charles Johnson assumed the paper to be legitimate (as did we and many others) and used it to attack other bloggers with charges of guilt-by-association. –Ed.]

[UPDATE No. 2: The MSM, including the Norwegian press, are treating the “Manifesto” as authentic. –Ed.]

—————————————————————————–

Dr. Chanan Naveh, who used to edit the Israel Broadcasting Authority radio’s news desk, mentioned, with no regrets, examples in which he and his colleagues made a concerted effort to change public opinion: “Three broadcasters – Carmela Menashe, Shelly Yechimovich [later a Labour party Knesset Member], and I – pushed in every way possible the withdrawal from Lebanon towards 2000… I have no doubt that we promoted an agenda of withdrawal that was a matter of public dispute.” As Charles Johnson of American anti-Jihad blog Little Green Footballs[4] commented: “Journalists are no longer in the business of simply reporting facts and events; increasingly, they see their job as ‘activism,’ and the points of view they promote are invariably leftist and transnationalist. Honest journalists will admit this outright, and we see the pernicious effects of this information manipulation and filtering everywhere.”

—————————————————————————–
In August 2006, following the unveiling of a plot to blow up several airliners between Britain and the USA, Muslim leaders summoned to talks with the Government on tackling extremism made a series of demands, which included the introduction of sharia law[31] for family matters. Dr Syed Aziz Pasha, secretary general of the Union of Muslim Organisations of the UK and Ireland, said: ‘We told her [the minister] if you give us religious rights, we will be in a better position to convince young people that they are being treated equally along with other citizens.’As Charles Johnson[32] of blog Little Green Footballs dryly commented, this is an interesting viewpoint: Only by receiving special treatment and instituting a medieval religious legal code can Muslims be treated “equally.”—————————————————————————–
If the United States wants to maintain what it sees as its moral leadership, it can begin by challenging Islamic censorship and intimidation. China doesn’t care, nor does Russia, while India has a huge Islamic fifth column to worry about. Europe is controlled by a Eurabian elite that is both unwilling and incapable of protecting free speech from Muslim intimidation, which is why many Europeans have become free speech refugees on American websites such as Robert Spencer’s JihadWatch.org and Charles Johnson’s Little Green Footballs[130].

In late 2007 and early 2008, I was involved in a heated argument with the American blog Little Green Footballs and its owner Charles Johnson. I haven’t been thinking much about it since then because it consumed too much energy and I found it to be a waste of time. However, recent events have caused me to look at these issues once more. In the city of Cologne (Köln), Germany, a scheduled anti-Islamisation demonstration was disrupted by an unholy alliance of Eurabian Multicultural elites and extreme Leftist “anti-Fascists.” As Thomas Landen puts it in The Brussels Journal[1]:

—————————————————————————–

I checked the front page of the major American “anti-Jihad” website Little Green Footballs (LGF) from Friday 19 to Tuesday September 23 2008 to check what blogger Charles Johnson wrote about the demonstration. As far as I could see, he remained completely silent on the subject, yet there is no doubt that he was aware of the event. On Sep 8 he wrote about Fascists Hijacking Anti-Jihadism in Cologne”[18]” and stated that “Here we go again, as an all-star cast of European fascists hijacks the anti-jihad movement for their own sick political purposes.”

One of these “Fascist bastards” (Johnson’s words) was Dewinter, with his “Cities against islamisation” project. Mr. Johnson himself noted that the leaders of the Islamic Republic of Iran, hardly a beacon of tolerance and enlightenment, urged the European Union (not Germany, interestingly enough) to intervene and stop this planned “anti-Islamic” meeting, and Johnson concluded that “The Iranian mullahs couldn’t have asked for better propaganda.”

The Iranians[19] put pressure on the EU several times and summoned the French ambassador – France held the rotating presidency of the EU – to expressed deep concern over the EU’s lenient behaviour toward anti-Islamic sentiments in Europe and suggested that European authorities prohibited the conference. Shouldn’t the “anti-Jihadist” Johnson and his followers be concerned over the fact that they end up on the same side as a repressive and terrorist-sponsoring Islamic state against Westerners fighting for their freedom? Apparently not.

Just a few days before this, the “Fascist bastard” Filip Dewinter[20] received the “Oriana Fallaci Prize” in Florence for his work with “Cities Against Islamisation,” among other things. The prize is named after the courageous Italian Islam-critical journalist and writer Oriana Fallaci. The irony is that Mr. Johnson kept a photo of Fallaci on his frontpage for several years, but at the time of writing, this photo has suddenly and mysteriously disappeared. I guess Fallaci was a Fascist, too, just like Dewinter, myself and everybody else who doesn’t believe in the myth of a moderate Islam. Dutch politician Geert Wilders does not appear to believe in the existence of a moderate Islam, either. When will LGF declare him a Fascist?

The LGF-crowd thinks that Europeans must prove that we are 100% “ideologically pure” before we should be granted the right to fight for our continued existence. Imagine if a house is on fire. The fire brigade has just arrived to put out the fire, but the neighbour won’t allow them to use the local water because he fears it may be impure. He will only accept that they use holy water – distilled holy water – and only if it has been blessed by a lesbian priest who supports voting rights for illegal immigrants. Since the firefighters don’t have this available, the house burns down, but the neighbour takes comforting in knowing that at least the remaining ash is ideologically pure. This is Little Green Football’s attitude to the threat faced by the Western world. In fact, their attitude is to say that the water is more dangerous than the fire itself, and to beat the firefighters with their umbrellas while screaming “Fascist bastards!”

I have watched, for the better part of a year, a number of decent human beings including, but not limited to, Pamela Geller, Paul Belien, Diana West, the Baron and Dymphna from the Gates of Vienna blog and many others, being at the receiving end of a vicious smear campaign from Charles Johnson and Little Green Footballs which is unlike anything I have seen in my life. After engaging in an insane witch-hunt on imaginary Fascists, whose ranks seem to grow every month, Mr. Johnson now suddenly chooses to look the other way in silence when very real Fascists use violence to silence their critics in a major Western city. I admit that makes me angry, and I think I have the right to be so.

The time has now come for Mr. Johnson to apologise in public to the numerous people he has smeared since the fall of 2007, starting with the ones I have mentioned above. It’s not their credibility that’s on the line here. It’s his. If he continues to undermine those confronting Islamic infiltration, it will become increasingly difficult for LGF to present itself as an anti-Jihad website at all. At some point, the rapidly shrinking number of people in the northern hemisphere who haven’t been banned from the site yet will be forced to ask themselves whether the website and its owner have simply switched teams and joined the Dark Side.

—————————————————————————–

What is posted above are the thoughts and words of a madman, edited only for their relevance to Charles Johnson’s Little Green Footballs.

Did Johnson influence Anders Behring Breivik? Assuming that the “Manifesto” is legitimate, the answer is YES, WITHOUT A DOUBT.

The purpose of posting portions of the deranged terrorist’s “manifesto” is not to blame Charles Johnson or anyone connected with Little Green Footballs for yesterday’s atrocities. The purpose is to illustrate that Charles Johnson has stooped so low as to use this abhorrent event to attempt to destroy his own imagined enemies with innuendo, guilt by association, slander, character assassination, defamation, and fraud.

Charles Johnson owes public apologies to Fjordman, Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer and others.

—————————————————————————–

h/t to Beed for the following links:

lgf links in manifest:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=23696_Christmas_Disappears_from_Bethlehem&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=15835&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22476&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=18088_The_Ghost_City_of_Cyprus
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=23705_The_Islamophobia_Circus_Comes_to_Town&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=8263
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=20045_EU_Ostriches
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=20665&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=20593&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=25757_Israeli_Media_Admit_Anti-War_Agenda&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=15442&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22323&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=16866&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=8863&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22425&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22113&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/lgf-search.php?searchWith=lgf&searchString=terje+roed-larsen&doSearch=search
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=23580&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=21222
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=23192&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=23762_CAIRs_Victimization_Game&only
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=23450_CAIRs_Five-Year_Propaganda_Push_Continues&only
http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/

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344 Comments on “The Charles Johnson / LGF Connection (UPDATED)”

  1. Mandingo Warrior says:

    Pretty damning if all is true. No wonder CJ is deflecting and building walls around his readers; this guy mentions him by name.

  2. Briareus says:

    Did Johnson influence Anders Behring Breivik? Assuming that the “Manifesto” is legitimate, the answer is YES, WITHOUT A DOUBT.

    The purpose of posting portions of the deranged terrorist’s “manifesto” is not to blame Charles Johnson or anyone connected with Little Green Footballs for yesterday’s atrocities. The purpose is to illustrate that Charles Johnson has stooped so low as to use this abhorrent event to attempt to destroy his own imagined enemies with iinnuendo, guilt by association, slander, character assassination, defamation, and fraud.
    Charles Johnson owes public apologies to Fjordman, Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer and others.

  3. Diogenes says:

    What is posted above are the thoughts and words of a madman, edited only for their relevance to Charles Johnson’s Little Green Footballs.

    In the interest of accuracy:

    All of what’s posted above are the thoughts and words of Fjordman whose essays, published elsewhere, were incorporated into a document compiled by a madman, without Fjordman’s knowledge or consent.

  4. swamprat says:

    He disagreed with Charles, yet he also used the links and info Charles presented. Charles is certainly vindicated regarding his stance against accepting those with a caviler attitude towards bigotry, But his influence via the stories he linked to, and the associations that he at one time accepted…. That influence cannot be denied.

    But the worst part is the whole “Aha! Gotcha!” attitude the left presents whether valid or not. They are without shame in that way. Anything that goes goes against their ideology doesn’t count, and anything against the other side is always taken at face value.

    A pox upon them.

  5. Diogenes says:

    Quick count of other references:

    Hitler: 54
    Churchill: 25
    Obama: 19
    Marx: 18
    Stalin: 14
    Tony Blair: 12
    Otto Von Bismarck: 8
    Mao: 7
    Mussolini: 5
    Al Gore: 3
    Ronald Reagan: 2
    Nixon: 1

  6. Bunk X says:

    Diogenes :

    What is posted above are the thoughts and words of a madman, edited only for their relevance to Charles Johnson’s Little Green Footballs.

    In the interest of accuracy:
    All of what’s posted above are the thoughts and words of Fjordman whose essays, published elsewhere, were incorporated into a document compiled by a madman, without Fjordman’s knowledge or consent.

    For sure there’s a lot of disinformation on this. You got a link for proof?

    • The majority of the references to Charles were from Fjordman essays that this guy apparently pasted in there. However, some of these essays were also linked by Charles back in the day (now memory-holed). For example, this one:

      Is in the manifesto on page 527.

      From what I gathered, the only link to LGF that wasn’t related to an accompanying Fjordman essay was the aforementioned one on Bethlehem (page 584).

      Nevertheless, the work by Johnson was obviously significant to Fjordman, and by extension, the madman.

      • Bunk X says:

        So Charles can cut and paste from anywhere, and he’s not endorsing the viewpoint (true), while Charles can claim that Pam Geller is to be condemned because this asshole linked to her a few times?

        I think some folks are missing the point of this post: that Charles’ own words and his LGF threads were linked many more times than Geller’s AtlasShrugs posts were, yet Chuck used that as a weapon against Pamela Geller and others.

  7. poteen says:

    Charlie Johnson LLC.
    Lying Little Cockroach.

    Nobody in that “counter-jihad” crowd will ever link to my site with approval again, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. I’ve made it extremely clear, for years, that I want nothing to do with their hate speech and bigotry.

    This situation in Norway is exactly why I tossed all those people out of LGF and cut all ties with Spencer and Geller and their crowd of bigots and haters. I guarantee that Anders Behring Breivik was not a fan of LGF, and Geller knows this very well.

    On the contrary, Breivik is a product of the groups and causes Pamela Geller continues to promote to this day.

    Related:
    Oslo Terrorist Linked to EDL and European Branch of Pamela Geller’s Hate Group

    • St. Pancake says:

      Charlie Johnson LLC.
      Lying Little Cockroach,
      “Nobody in that “counter-jihad” crowd will ever link to my site with approval again, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. I’ve made it extremely clear, for years, that I want nothing to do with their hate speech and bigotry.”

      First off, chuckles hasn’t shown any proof of counter-jihad websites endorsing this murder’s motive to kill, before or after the killings. He may have the same beliefs as those sites, but that casual connection isn’t an endorsement or an incitement.

      For chuckles claimed innocence; after being involved for YEARS publishing, endorsing and approving the same counter-jihad beliefs, he later claims he was conned. His defense, is I’m so stupid such an idiot, a dupe, and brain dead that I was conned for 7-8 YEARS. And exactly why would anybody take such a simpleton seriously?

  8. Emperor says:

    I think that it is unfair to place blame on anyone for this other than the madman himself – whether that be Charles, Geller, and Fjordman. They are not responsible for the actions of this murderous monster – though the fact is that Charles Johnson repeatedly libelled Fjordman, Geller, and Spencer by linking them to the attacks, even going as far as to link to an unsourced report posted on a Swedish neo-Nazi site that claimed that Fjordman was the shooter.

    Now it’s clear that LGF was referenced in this manifesto, either (actually, both) directly, or indirectly through Fjordman essays copied verbatim.

    This isn’t the first time Charles has attempted to use despicable crimes and shamelessly exploit them for political purposes.

    But this time it’s him that is potentially implicated, and it’s time for him to own up to one of two things:

    Either he has to admit that HE helped motivate the killer, or he has to apologize to Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, and Fjordman for libelling them by falsely linking them to this crime.

    Charles Johnson cannot be allowed to have it both ways.

    The other possible shoe to drop: Was this madman a registered user of LGF?

  9. Bunk X says:

    Obviously feeling backed into a corner, Charles Johnson lashes out with his patented incoherent malice: NORWAY SHOOTER A PAMELA GELLER FAN!!!!

  10. Juan Epstein says:

    If his motivation was anti-jihad, why didn’t attack Muslims, Mosques, etc.?

  11. John Difool says:

    Charles is doing nothing more than projecting here. He’s blood-libeling Fjordman, Geller and Spencer to throw the heat off of himself.

    Also, lets not forget where those three got their start and honed their blogging chops. If they’re somehow responsible for influencing mass murder murder then Charles is too.

  12. Bunk X says:

    Charles Johnson sez:

    Nobody in that “counter-jihad” crowd will ever link to my site with approval again, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. I’ve made it extremely clear, for years, that I want nothing to do with their hate speech and bigotry.

    This situation in Norway is exactly why I tossed all those people out of LGF and cut all ties with Spencer and Geller and their crowd of bigots and haters. I guarantee that Anders Behring Breivik was not a fan of LGF, and Geller knows this very well.

    On the contrary, Breivik is a product of the groups and causes Pamela Geller continues to promote to this day.

    And all because a madman terrorist followed LGF and quoted Charles Johnson more than he quoted Pamela Geller, or even David Duke. Chuck, you’re a mess.

    • John Difool says:

      The only thing i want to know is where did a simple farmer like Breivit get the technical know how to build a car bomb on such short notice. Isn’t Charles Johnson a high-tech web designer and software engineer?

      Coincidence? I think not.

      • Iron Fist says:

        I don’t think I’d call a script kiddie like Chuckles a “Software Engineer”…

    • CJ: Nobody in that “counter-jihad” crowd will ever link to my site with approval again, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. I’ve made it extremely clear, for years, that I want nothing to do with their hate speech and bigotry.

      How convenient is that?

      He created that environment. He chummed with everyone he’s condemning now. It was his blog, and he’s acting like he had nothing to do with it.

      If they’re guilty, he’s just as guilty, if not more.

      I always knew he wasn’t a man. I just would have thought he’d at least have the intelligence to lay low in this situation instead of launching into his predictable finger pointing routine, given that he has every bit as much culpability in this case as those he is accusing tonight.

      Personally, I don’t hold any of them to blame, but since Charles does, he’d better first fucking blame himself.

      • swamprat says:

        Very true. If he hadn’t started in with all the blaming and drama, I would not have known about any lgf connection and frankly everone, including charles, would have been better off.

      • 1389 says:

        Don’t worry, CJ, no genuine counterjihadist would ever link to your site anyway, except to make fun of you or to debunk you.

        And we don’t need your permission to do it, bozo.

  13. St. Pancake says:

    First it’s the right-wing, now it’s the videogames

    Oslo Terrorist Used Modern Warfare 2 as “Training-Simulation”
    http://kotaku.com/5824147/oslo-terrorist-anders-behring-breivik-used-modern-warfare-2-as-training+simulation-world-of-warcraft-as-cover

    • garycooper says:

      I don’t recall the name of his game, and I’m not a gamer myself, but isn’t it part of the current legend of “The Culver City Blob” that he spends oodles of time in his basement, sitting in a corner dedicated to his favorite war-game? Peeing in bottles, snarfing cases of Cheetos, and occasionally recycling his bodily-liquids rather than leave the game to go upstairs and get a fresh 2-liter bottle of Dew?

      From here, it’s not a long leap of imagination to see our Fatass engaged in long-distance combat with, and by “with” I mean side-by-side, brothers-in-arms with our Norwegian madman.

      It just fits.

  14. garycooper says:

    Chunky using logic to prove his points about Geller, Spencer, et al:

    http://tinyurl.com/3crrm9l

  15. Bunk X says:

    155 Charles Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:54:05pm
    6
    down
    up
    report
    Isn’t that cute – all of Pamela’s fans are retweeting her “Norway Shooter a Charles Johnson Fan” post, even though they must realize it’s complete bullshit.

    “Charles Johnson” and “Johnson” is mentioned 17 times; ”Little Green Footballs” and “LGF” is mentioned 16 times. [That’s 33 for Chuck.]

    “Geller” is mentioned 1 time; “Atlasshrugs” is mentioned 12 times.
    [Pamela Geller totals 13.]

    • jd says:

      The shooter was a Charles Johnson fan. He signed on there to common cause and influence. I’m sure Charles exchanged posts with him.

  16. Bunk X says:

    The most sentient comment I saw at the swamp today.

    800 Gus 802 Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:04:34pm
    0
    down
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    Fuck.

  17. Bunk X says:

    Meanwhile, Obdicut is about to start spewing from both ends, and two lizards liked the idea enough to upding.

    49 Obdicut Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:45:27pm
    2
    down
    up
    report
    In other news, I’m reeely hoping this upset stomach isn’t an e-coli infection.

    • Pakimon says:

      No Obdicut, it isn’t e-coli.

      It’s from eating the urine tainted Cheetos that Chunky passed off to you so you’d quit pestering him.

      But don’t blame him.

      After all, he ran out of piss bottles and that snack bowl was the closest thing handy….

    • doppelganger says:

      he should stop giving rim jobs.

    • gizbot7 says:

      Hey Obi, how about a nice, greasy pork sandwich served in a dirty ashtray? Yum!

  18. Mouse-Ka-Mania! says:

    The real question is whether he was a lizard.

    I bet he was. And I bet he tells that to his investigators and it gets wide, wide publicity.

  19. doppelganger says:

    Bunk X :So Charles can cut and paste from anywhere, and he’s not endorsing the viewpoint (true), while Charles can claim that Pam Geller is to be condemned because this asshole linked to her a few times?
    I think some folks are missing the point of this post: that Charles’ own words and his LGF threads were linked many more times than Geller’s AtlasShrugs posts were, yet Chuck used that as a weapon against Pamela Geller and others.

    exactly.

    the whole point of this is that Charles thinks he can erase his past.
    Now I happen to agree very much with 2006 charles. the anti-jihadist movement is essential for hte survival of the west as we know it.

    but charles thinks he can play the guilt by association game, when in fact, he’s part of the group.

    his readers are dumb enough to be fooled, but the rest of the world can see it how it is

  20. Pretzel Logic says:

    Whether you ever agreed or disagreed with Charles and his anti-Jihadist stance, there is no doubt that Charles was a major influence in the “blogosphere” when taking a stand against radical Islam. Charles Fostered Johnson a small cadre of American and foreign “soldiers” in a ground roots campaign against rampant infiltration of Islam into various cultures.

    With Charles’ help, people like Robert Spencer and Pam Geller found a willing audience in which to grow their personal and political opinions about Islam. With Charles’ help, people like “Fjordman” found an incubator and public forum, with a willing host (Charles), who offered them editorial “space” on Little Green Footballs to state their positions and to frame their objections. With Charles’ help, Jihad Watch gained the coding and web design expertise of programmer Charles Johnson, which enabled the web site to become attractable and user friendly, and Robert Spencer publicly thanked Charles a number of times for lending a hand in the creation of Jihad Watch.

    There should be no doubt in anyones mind, and the proof is in the historical and cached remnants of past Little Green Footballs threads and blog entires, that before Charles Johnson “left the right” that he was foremost a very popular sounding board for the anti-Jihad movement. And there should be no doubt in anyones mind that Anders Behring Breivik spent a good deal of time on Little Green Footballs (Breivik himself admits, in his manifesto, to conversing with Charles) absorbing and even participating in the rhetoric that abounded on the blog, feeding and festering his hatred for his perceived “invasion” of his Nordic homeland.

    We all know by past experience that Charles Johnson is a firm believer in “guilt by association.” In that case, you can only come to one conclusion in regards to Anders Behring Breivik. Charles Johnson and Little Green Footballs is as much responsible for the tragedy that happened in Norway this past Friday, as responsible as if he had pulled the trigger himself.

    • Ding ding ding, thread winner. I absolutely detest the cynical ploy of tying the actions of a single nut case to those who are otherwise not involved in an attempt to smear or silence them. This gag was most recently rolled out to indict, in the court of public opinion, Sarah Palin after the shooting of Giffords (and others) by a particularly crazy person, who later claimed to have had no ideology. Still, that particular meme persisted in certain corners of the blogosphere, including LGF.

      And now, after this tragedy, this bloodbath, LGF, both proprietor and users, engage once again in what may only be called a campaign of harassment and libel aimed at those they wish to see silenced. On the backs of 80+ dead. Envision, if you will, a group of jackals at the scene, bullhorns in hand: they literally climb upon the bloodied bodies of the innocent to broadcast their twisted thoughts to the masses. This is who they are, and this is what they do, and it should make decent people viscerally angry. How cheap is life to these people?

      But, fine, freedom of speech and all that. Except this time, Johnson should be made to play by the rules of the game he has been playing long these many years. He set the pieces, let’s see him play the game to its logical conclusion, which can only be: you played your part to create this monster, as well. And you can’t memory hole *every* single hateful word, every hyperbolic phrase, every paragraph which might inflame and incite to action the disturbed among us.

    • snowcrash says:

      Well stated, Pretzel Logic.

  21. […] The Diary Of Daedalus has the Charles Johnson/LGF connection to the Norway nutjob […]

  22. Antifa says:

    Pretzel Logic :
    Whether you ever agreed or disagreed with Charles and his anti-Jihadist stance, there is no doubt that Charles was a major influence in the “blogosphere” when taking a stand against radical Islam. Charles Fostered Johnson a small cadre of American and foreign “soldiers” in a ground roots campaign against rampant infiltration of Islam into various cultures.
    With Charles’ help, people like Robert Spencer and Pam Geller found a willing audience in which to grow their personal and political opinions about Islam. With Charles’ help, people like “Fjordman” found an incubator and public forum, with a willing host (Charles), who offered them editorial “space” on Little Green Footballs to state their positions and to frame their objections. With Charles’ help, Jihad Watch gained the coding and web design expertise of programmer Charles Johnson, which enabled the web site to become attractable and user friendly, and Robert Spencer publicly thanked Charles a number of times for lending a hand in the creation of Jihad Watch.
    There should be no doubt in anyones mind, and the proof is in the historical and cached remnants of past Little Green Footballs threads and blog entires, that before Charles Johnson “left the right” that he was foremost a very popular sounding board for the anti-Jihad movement. And there should be no doubt in anyones mind that Anders Behring Breivik spent a good deal of time on Little Green Footballs (Breivik himself admits, in his manifesto, to conversing with Charles) absorbing and even participating in the rhetoric that abounded on the blog, feeding and festering his hatred for his perceived “invasion” of his Nordic homeland.
    We all know by past experience that Charles Johnson is a firm believer in “guilt by association.” In that case, you can only come to one conclusion in regards to Anders Behring Breivik. Charles Johnson and Little Green Footballs is as much responsible for the tragedy that happened in Norway this past Friday, as responsible as if he had pulled the trigger himself.

    No doubt. Charles Johnson clearly had significant influence over the shooter, he was linked by him extensively. Breivik read LGF and was influenced by Charles’ ideas.

    Charles should be held accountable, and Norway should demand his extradition.

    • ThreeHundred says:

      Re-read the third to last sentence of PL’s post, then you will realize that what you are saying is that you agree with “guilt by association”. You don’t fall for that do you?

  23. Antifa says:

    Freedom of speech is not freedom to expouse fascist views, at least not in Europe.

    Since the crime was committed in Norway, and Norway has laws against incitement and racism – Charles should be held accountable, he needs to be extradited and face trial for his assistance to Breivik.

    • TreBob says:

      If you can’t espouse unpopular views, then you don’t really have freedom of speech. Popular speech or speech that doesn’t offend any segment of the population, doesn’t need protection. Freedom of speech means that one is free to make his/her views known regardless how popular they are, how stupid they are or if any else on the planet even agrees with them or not.

  24. Pretzel Logic says:

    Antifa :
    Freedom of speech is not freedom to expouse fascist views, at least not in Europe.
    Since the crime was committed in Norway, and Norway has laws against incitement and racism – Charles should be held accountable, he needs to be extradited and face trial for his assistance to Breivik.

    And since Charles Johnson lives in the United States, and he has the freedom to discuss issues which may or may not inflame the mind of an unstable person, you’re childish and simplistic rhetoric is asinine. My point above is meant to be nuanced satire, which you seem to miss completely. Idiot.

    • I read Antifa’s comment as satirical as well. Nuanced satire, so fairly easy to miss, wouldn’t you agree?

      • Pretzel Logic says:

        Er… no… it was a simplistic and juvenile swipe at Johnson and LGF… not worthy of the appellation “nuanced” at all.

      • Beau Gus says:

        I was about to make a snarky remark, then I considered that you might be right. In any event, Chucky needn’t worry about extradition, but if he ever gets the urge to go to the EU, he really should check this out. And Pam and everyone else. They really do arrest and incarcerate people there for speech, just like any banana republic. No shit.

      • I read it as a facetious remark as well.

    • Bunk X says:

      Unfortunately, the point of the post seems to have been missed by some. In no way is Charles Johnson accountable for the acts of a deranged “homegrown terrorist.” The killer’s Mom undoubtedly had more influence on him than CJ, but she’s not to be blamed for the atrocity either.

      Charles Johnson used the “manifesto” to smear his perceived personal enemies.

  25. Pretzel Logic says:

    holyromanstuff :
    Ding ding ding, thread winner….

    Thank you for the compliment. Maybe one of the powers to be here wants to use it as a thread topic… they have my permission.

  26. There’s now an LGF Page penned by Sergey about this thread:

    http://lgf.bz/qJbyKD

    OK..we know that Fjordman’s essays were in the manifesto, and that many of those essays referenced CJ and LGF multiple times. So, the phrase “own unedited words” could be a sticking point, yes.

    However, each one of those 23 links to LGF are still valid and stand on their own. It’s not “ancient history”. It’s Johnson’s own work that appears in that manifesto. You can’t deflect that.

    • Here, here. I am quite certain that the good doctor Frankenstein, upon realizing the error of his ways, turned against his creation at some point. But try telling the angry villagers at the door, they of the pitchfork and torch set, that, well,, you didn’t really mean it, and see how far that gets you.

    • Notchabusiness says:

      I’m not here to excuse the old LGF-Fjordman connection. What happened – happened, he has since been banned exactly for his defense of fascism, so let everybody decide for themselves whether there is any culpability. However, you should update/amend your post and apologize to Charles for incorrect information. Briareus’ claims are not simply a “sticking point”. They’re libelous.

      • Emperor says:

        What part of what Briareus said is libellous? I mean, outside of LGF where every smear Charles says is taken as truth and any truth spoken about Charles is called libel.

        Fact: “Charles Johnson” and “Little Green Footballs” are mentioned in the manifesto, and littlegreenfootballs.com is used as a source. Either directly or indirectly through Fjordman. Those are just facts. Where’s the libel?

      • jd says:

        Notcha, you’re misguided. Fjordman wasn’t banned for defending fascism. And Charles is the one who threw the ad hominen shit out. Clean your ears up a bit so you can evaluate these things correctly. NO one blogging is culpable for the killings unless all the internet is. Charles is culpable for his ad hominens. Sorry that LGF posters are so culted they can’t make the distinction.

      • snowcrash says:

        Notchabiz is sergey romanoff from LGF. How come you won’t use your real name? Afraid of the consequences? Surely Charles values your defense of his good name enough to allow you to use your usual nic at the unapproved sites. Lol you guys are afraid.

      • jd says:

        LGF members are not allowed to speak freely on the internet. That should be a big clue right there.

  27. Pretzel Logic says:

    ChenZhen, as The Minotaur :
    There’s now an LGF Page penned by Sergey about this thread:
    http://lgf.bz/qJbyKD
    OK..we know that Fjordman’s essays were in the manifesto, and that many of those essays referenced CJ and LGF multiple times. So, the phrase “own unedited words” could be a sticking point, yes.
    However, each one of those 23 links to LGF are still valid and stand on their own. It’s not “ancient history”. It’s Johnson’s own work that appears in that manifesto. You can’t deflect that.

    Bottom line is simple. Charles Johnson and LGF sponsored, hosted, recommended and AGREED with “Fjordmans” essays and opinions.

  28. Antifa says:

    Pretzel Logic :

    Antifa :
    Freedom of speech is not freedom to expouse fascist views, at least not in Europe.
    Since the crime was committed in Norway, and Norway has laws against incitement and racism – Charles should be held accountable, he needs to be extradited and face trial for his assistance to Breivik.

    And since Charles Johnson lives in the United States, and he has the freedom to discuss issues which may or may not inflame the mind of an unstable person, you’re childish and simplistic rhetoric is asinine. My point above is meant to be nuanced satire, which you seem to miss completely. Idiot.

    If one lives in the States it is of no consequence, since the crime he is complicit in was committed in Norway.

    Charles Johnson is a fascist agitator, he is responsible for the terrible atrocity, and he needs to be extradited to Norway to stand trial for his disgusting fascism which led to a slaughter of 104 innocent kids. Nothing less would be acceptable.

  29. Antifa says:

    holyromanstuff :
    I read Antifa’s comment as satirical as well. Nuanced satire, so fairly easy to miss, wouldn’t you agree?

    Why would the just demand for solidarity with the victims of this terrible Charles Johnson inspired mega-terrorism be considered “satirical” on this board? Do you hate Norwegian children?

    No Pasaran! Justice for the victims of Charles Johnson!

  30. Pretzel Logic says:

    Antifa :

    holyromanstuff :
    I read Antifa’s comment as satirical as well. Nuanced satire, so fairly easy to miss, wouldn’t you agree?

    Why would the just demand for solidarity with the victims of this terrible Charles Johnson inspired mega-terrorism be considered “satirical” on this board? Do you hate Norwegian children?
    No Pasaran! Justice for the victims of Charles Johnson!

    You are a complete idiot. The satire was directed against Charles Johnson. Where in any of the above comments has anyone satirized the killing themselves, or made light of them. You are agitating for the sake of agitating, without any intelligence behind your statements. Worthless and no further responses are needed.

  31. poteen says:

    A comment or two without irony, nuance or satire.

    Charlie Johnson is a bigoted little coward. Cowardly in that he denies his own ties to this tragedy, tenuous as they are, while attempting to exaggerate those exact same ties for Fjordman, Gellar and Spencer.
    Bigoted in that the purpose of those exaggerations is to tie his targets to some true evil of the past.
    Whether a mass murderer in Norway, a loony assassin or drug crazed child killers in Arizona or just about anyone who waves a Tennessee flag his line is always the same. “Look at them. They’re not like us. They caused this. They are the ‘other’.” Then he throws out his taglines- Fascist! Racist! Bigot! – as if to prove that they are truly the reincarnation of that evil.
    There is no irony in pointing out that this bigotry is the tactic that helped in great measure to bring the Nazis to power in the 20th century.. Charlie and his ignorant followers hide in their basements and cheer their accomplishments as the new vanguard of civil rights, piggybacking on the suffering and sacrifice of others. All the while too stupid, bigoted and cowardly to realize that they are simply, the same old evil.

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled nuance and satire.

    • poteen says:

      Hah! Damn, I’m good.

      41 Gus 802 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 10:03:40am

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      Is she “one of them”?

      Radical State: How Jihad Is Winning Over Democracy in the West – Abigail R. Esman (Praeger Security International)

      • HolyRomanStuff says:

        Prescient, or simply a student of the Lizard mind?

      • poteen says:

        Never studied psychology much. But I used to throw bread crumbs into carp ponds and the lizards behave in a similar fashion./

  32. Running Bare says:

    The cops in Norway arrested 6, but released them after determining they had no involvment.

  33. DEZ says:

    CJ is hoping mad at Forbes writer Abigail R. Esman.
    Bwhahahaha!

    • Calo says:

      This post from Summer on LGF made me laugh

      14 Summer Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:49:58am replyquote

      * 0
      * down
      * up
      * report

      I haven’t read the entire thing, but the fact that he says he was involved in arguments leads me to believe that he had a name here and some of us may have read his stuff. If so, I am certain that he was one of those expunged for extremist and insane views over the last few years.

      I am wondering which one it was, and what he said.

      *crickets from Charles*

      • DEZ says:

        Forbes hammered his ass, and refuses to make Chucky look good in a retraction, and now one of his lizards points out the guy was most likely a lizard, we better make popcorn.

  34. Emperor says:

    Wow. It looks like Forbes changed their article after Charles objected.

    Before:

    Yet nothing in these writings greatly distinguishes him from other followers of such blogs: he frequently praises a writer who goes by the name “Fjordman” and who is well known on the conservative, largely anti-Islam circuit; and he often cites posts from the site Little Green Footballs and Pamela Geller’s Atlas Shrugged , both of which are popular not only among anti-Islam activists, but amont even more moderate types concerned about the rise of radical Islam in the West.

    After:

    Yet nothing in these writings greatly distinguishes him from other followers of such blogs: he frequently praises a writer who goes by the name “Fjordman” and who is well known on the conservative, largely anti-Islam circuit; and he often cites posts from Pamela Geller’s Atlas Shrugged and other sites popular not only among anti-Islam activists, but among even more moderate types concerned about the rise of radical Islam in the West.

  35. Emperor says:

    Looks like these comments that the sycophants left in the comments section of the article may have been the cause of the change:

    12:55 pm on 07/24/11
    bellamalkah
    bellamalkah

    Please edit your column to remove the mention of Little Green Footballs as an anti-Islamist website. LGF had a very public break from them years ago and is now also hated by them. See here http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/38926_Forbes_Writer_Gets_Oslo_Terrorist_Story_Very_Wrong/comments/
    Log in to Reply

  36. Emperor says:

    Charles Sun, Jul 24, 2011 10:24:31am 10

    re: #89 marjoriemoon

    Reload her page. She removed the LGF reference.

    Yes, she removed the reference, when I told her I was going to contact Forbes’s editors. And she was NOT gracious about it — accused me of “defaming” her with this post.

    • DEZ says:

      The sharks have smelled blood.

    • MrPaulRevere says:

      The loser can’t even get his story straight: “Esman has now removed the reference to LGF, with no comment, after I contacted her via email.” Obviously, she had something to say, and did.

  37. MrPaulRevere says:

    This could get interesting:

    Charles Sun, Jul 24, 2011 10:42:51am

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    She’s reading these comments, obviously, and complained that registration was closed, so I’ve opened it.

  38. DEZ says:

    122 Charles Sun, Jul 24, 2011 10:40:00am

    6
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    Now she demands that I delete this post.

  39. Emperor says:

    Varek Raith Sun, Jul 24, 2011 11:05:56am 0

    Hey, Miss/Ms Esman?

    Registration is open. Feel free to join us in discussion here.

  40. Banshee says:

    It seems to me the one who ows public apologies to all those fine folks is Breivik. Whatever their own plans. policies, or programs for the “anti-jihad” may have been, this “misunderstander of Christianity” has effectively torpedoed Spencer, Geller, et al. by citing them as theoretical role models. Johnson, by contrast, comes out smelling like a rose.

    You may not lke it, but Killgore is probably right: SIOA and the rest are sunk.

    • Mandingo Warrior says:

      Really? He’s already used the tragedy as a tool to spite the people he doesn’t like and no matter what he says, he put those blogs on the map as @lizardoid approved sites.

      • Banshee says:

        He also dumped them when he saw where they were heading. It took Geller three or four years to see the Nazis hiding in plain sight in the EDL, and many still haven’t figured out the eliminationist agenda behind Fjordman’s verbiage, whereas Johnson got out while the getting was good. I’m no fan of Chunk’s, but it’s not because he was wrong about the Eurofascists.

    • Beau Gus says:

      Never overestimate the public’s attention span. This too, will pass.

      • Beau Gus says:

        As an example, remember the screaming yellow hair-on-fire panic about the BP oil spill and the Fukushima nuke plant? When’s the last time you heard anyone mention those? One’s less than a year old, and the other slightly over a year. All gone.

    • jd says:

      Nope, that ignores the facts on the blog table here. Charles put out the vicious ad hominem.

  41. Emperor says:

    Quick Charles! Ban this nefarious individual.

    Sergey Romanov Sun, Jul 24, 2011 11:18:28am 2

    Multiculturalism is fine as long as cultures are compatible. Multiculturalism should not tolerate oppression of women and other groups merely because some culture has such a tradition. Not all cultures are equal.

  42. Guy says:

    i think the story of charles johnson attempting to whitewash himself from a guilt-by-association story he authored is a compelling one and should be suggested to every media outlet covering the political angle of the oslo bombing you may happen to have in your e-mail contact list. it would give the writers an opportunity to provide more depth to the “why he did it” stories each publication must write.

    the body of such a story should put in hierarchical order,

    A) that charles is in fact the progenitor of the anti-jihad movement figures (geller, spenser, fjordman, et al) he cites.

    B) charles himself is mentioned in the killer’s manifesto.

    you’d be doing a good thing by going to whatever various media sites you frequent, finding their “contact the editor” email address or form, and suggesting this story.

  43. Mandingo Warrior says:

    Banshee :
    He also dumped them when he saw where they were heading. It took Geller three or four years to see the Nazis hiding in plain sight in the EDL, and many still haven’t figured out the eliminationist agenda behind Fjordman’s verbiage, whereas Johnson got out while the getting was good. I’m no fan of Chunk’s, but it’s not because he was wrong about the Eurofascists.

    He has weasel room, that’s all he’s got. The blame for the tragedy goes to the killer, but CJ didn’t even let the smoke from the gun settle before he had his pom pons out squealing with glee about a possible reference to Pam. Despicable.

  44. Emperor says:

    Banshee :
    He also dumped them when he saw where they were heading. It took Geller three or four years to see the Nazis hiding in plain sight in the EDL, and many still haven’t figured out the eliminationist agenda behind Fjordman’s verbiage, whereas Johnson got out while the getting was good. I’m no fan of Chunk’s, but it’s not because he was wrong about the Eurofascists.

    Never has Charles came out and said “I was wrong”. He didn’t just say, “I support Fjordman”. He gave him a voice and linked to many many of his essays. Charles’ support for Geller and Spencer in the creation of their respective blogs is well known and documented.

    Charles’ talking point for the past several years is “They went crazy, so I banned them”.

    No; they did not change at all.

    He did.

    Either HE was supporting Nazism or whatever from 2001-2008, and indeed had an influence on this madman killer, or he wasn’t, and all these “Nazi!” “Extremist!” “Secret Fascist!” attacks on his enemies for the past several years were smears.

    • Beau Gus says:

      Chuck needs to understand something. Atheists can’t go to confession.

    • Banshee says:

      He absolutely did say he was wrong about Fjordman. It’s quoted, um, right here on this blog, a couple of threads down. As for poor widdle Pammie, it’s hardly Chunk’s fault if the Oslo freak had the hots for her. Which apparently he did/does. It’s not Geller’s fault, either, except to the extent that her insanity was evidently a good fit with his. There is no need for Johnson to pick up on the associations here. People are smart enough to read for themselves. Fair or not, the connections will get made.

    • HolyRomanStuff says:

      Well, yes. Either the rules of this detestable game that some love to play in the wake of these types of tragedies apply to all, or they apply to none. My feeling is that in less than extraordinary circumstances, the former is the obvious answer. But that’s me, and obviously not Johnson. Fair play and decency are foreign concepts to this man.

      In that case, why should Johnson come out of this smelling of anything other than the sewer he has toiled in for so long?

      In any event, I am quite sure the digital shredders will be working overtime in the LGF bunker tonight.

    • Guy says:

      this is the crux of it. nothing has changed in the content or thrust of what is written by baron, pamela gellar, robert spenser, fjorman or anyone else since they were being nurtured and promoted by charles johnson pre-2007.

      charles asserts this fiction that they “went off the rails” at some point solely to support the conceit that he was never himself wrong, racist or morally culpable. he has resorted to use of the memory hole in order to support the fiction that there was some difference between what he and these figures said when they were joined intimately in “struggle” and the contemporaneous era.

      this is the big, stinking pile of mendacity at the center of this story.

  45. Notchabusiness says:

    Emperor :
    What part of what Briareus said is libellous?

    Emperor :
    What part of what Briareus said is libellous?

    The whole post is libelous. It implies that Breivik himself wrote essays for his book that quoted Charles. He didn’t. He simply took Fjordman’s essays that did mention LGF and Charles. I.e. Briareus removed a whole big link between Charles and Breivik – i.e. Fjordman, and tried to tie Breivik directly to Charles. Pure libel. Nobody disputes that there are links to old LGF and other “counter-Jihad” blogs in the file. Whether there is a case for influence or not let everybody decide for themselves (though there isn’t of course). But only based on stragiht facts, not lying quotes.

    • Beau Gus says:

      Get a dictionary. Idiot.

    • Emperor says:

      As soon as you read this post, I want you to look at the top right corner of your screen. Do you see that button with the “X” on it? Yes? Good. Click it. Then, after that, I want you to open your browser, navigate back home to littlegreenfootballs.com, where you can communicate with individuals of similar intelligence to you.

    • poteen says:

      . Briareus removed a whole big link between Charles and Breivik – i.e. Fjordman, and tried to tie Breivik directly to Charles.

      Briareus did not. What you state here is exactly what Charlie has done regarding Spencer and Geller.
      Sue for Libel? “Do it!”

    • HolyRomanStuff says:

      “Nobody disputes that there are links to old LGF and other “counter-Jihad” blogs in the file.”

      Exactly.

      “Whether there is a case for influence or not let everybody decide for themselves (though there isn’t of course).”

      Why not?

    • Guy says:

      cry about it.

      the substance for charles’ story, which places geller in the headline, not fjordman, is that:

      A) a the terrorist appreciated fjordman, and…
      B) fjordman guest-blogged at geller’s site.

      the additional fact which is relevant is:

      C) fjordman, geller and spencer each owe their prominence to charles johnson, who plucked them from obscurity (in the cases of geller and fjordman, his own blog’s comment threads) and nurtured their blogging carreers.

      charles dedicated dozens for front-page, headline posts to fjordman, each giving him de-facto “guestblogger” credit by prefixing his name to the headline. the content of these posts (i.e; “Fjordman – “Muslim Rape Epidemic in Europe”) were not less bigoted or extreme than what fjordman continued to write after charles decided that he didn’t like that talk anymore.

      charles is being hung by his own petard here.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        I’m not really interested in rehashing the history of “anti-Jihadi” movement. I have shown that Briareus’ posting is wrong. If you guys cannot even acknowledge such simple thing, there’s no hope for you.

      • Guy says:

        shame for you that you don’t get to select which facts are relevant.

    • DEZ says:

      Let me get this straight, person A writes a few lines on a blog, person B copies and pastes those lines to his blog, and person C uses the quotes from person B instead of person A, and you think that means the words no longer belong to person A?

      How many gallons of drool is in your keyboard?

    • swamprat says:

      Well, we certainly agree that “libel” is involved.

      As to who libeled whom; well, upon that point we differ.

    • Guy says:

      if it is true that notchabusiness is sergey of holocaust controversies, then i can only say it’s a disappointment that he has lowered himself to whitewash charle’s culpability in nurturing the sickening mindset which murdered 80+ people in norway this week.

      “never again” indeed.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        That’s what Briareus and this blog does.

      • Guy says:

        “i know you are but what am i”?

      • Notchabusiness says:

        This blog does excuse Spencer, Geller and Fjordman, so by your own logic it does just what you said.

      • Guy says:

        …and you excuse the parent of their efforts.

        there’s are people at this blog who cannot be persuaded to recognize what makes spenser, geller, and the rest objectionable. there are others who were “lll trolls” at lgf in the day and who knew from the beginning that those figures were morally objectionable. i’m here because at the time at which i was aware that ant-jihad rhetoric had modes of racial nationalism in it, charles was enthusiastically promoting everything fjordman had to say about the supposed need to “destroy european multiculturalism”, and i was banned for speaking up about it. i’m here because i recognize that charles didn’t “part ways” because he became morally serious, but because his authority was undermined when geller and spenser didn’t immediately obey him.

        i’m here because this site has a very narrow mission: to highlight charles johnson’s hypocrisy, and johnson’s hypocrisy offends me.

        and you know what? you don’t have to care, but your hypocrisy offends me too.

      • Guy says:

        i have to apologise to sergey. “notchabusiness” is clearly a sock for obdicut. wish i recognized that before i took it seriously.

    • Mandingo Warrior says:

      The amount of projection in that comment could link two universes. Besides, all the square-quote legalese fatboy threatens people with are trite. His grasp on law is about as apparent as his grasp on intellectual honesty. Zilch.

      Go wallow back to the swamp and ask him about bit.ly to see him in legal prose.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        “The amount of projection in that comment could link two universes.”

        Yeah, that completely refute that comment. Not.

    • jd says:

      NotChabusiness. So you are saying then Geller is completely innocent of any cause to this tragedy? And you are saying then that the above quotes are not Breivik quotes but Fjordman quotes? I no longer see the original text online. Be the big man then and call Geller completely innocent and take that concept back to LGF. You’ll be setting a good foundation for clear thinking.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        I don’t understand your point about Geller. Breivik admires her and Spence, as he wrote himself, not in the book but at document.no. But his most favorite author – as he himself writes in the book – is Fjordman. That’s why he took his essays and pasted them in the book.

  46. snowcrash says:

    Go read comment #42 for a clue. Then connect the dots. Gotta be ESL.

  47. Emperor says:

    Quiet! You are not to talk about that here.

    philosophus invidius Sun, Jul 24, 2011 11:34:34am 2

    I wonder if Breivik ever posted at LGF. I can imagine he did (and was banned).

  48. Pretzel Logic says:

    Charles is desperately trying to distance himself from the “anti-Jihad” movement that may have motivated Anders Behring Breivik…

    (Charles says…)
    I’ve had nothing to do with the “anti-Islam” blogosphere for years — in fact, they absolutely hate my guts. And Breivik did not cite posts from Little Green Footballs — he republished old articles by “Fjordman” that cited LGF, and he also cites many articles viciously attacking me.

    Unfortunately… when Anders Behring Breivik was reading and participating at LGF, Charles WAS a instrumental part of the “anti-Islam” blogosphere and the bottom line is very simple. Charles Johnson and LGF sponsored, hosted, recommended and AGREED with “Fjordmans” essays and opinions. The many participants on LGF in those days supported LGF for that exact reason, it’s “anti-Islam” bent and political leanings.

    Charles complains that someone is… “lumping me in with the “counter-jihad” bigots.” It’s no wonder, he WAS one of those counter-jihad “bigots” at one time, which can be proven by the history and legacy of Little Green Footballs. This would be like a killer, serving a life sentence, proclaim “Well, I use to be a killer, but I haven’t killed anyone in 3 years, so don’t be lumping me in with the other killers in this prison.”

    If it wasn’t so serious, it would be laughable. Abigail R. Esman is precisely correct in pointing out who Anders Behring Breivik quotes and WHERE he obtained those quotes from… from LGF. Links to “Fjordmans” missives, comments and quotes from “Fjordmans” rants and support of “Fjordmans” opinion on LGF did not mysteriously appear on LGF without the part and parcel of Charles’ handiwork. Charles may as well own up to the past, because he’s not going to be able to make it go away this simply, this time, by feigning an absence to the story, or hitting the delete key.

    The truth is out there, and it’s not going away this time.

    • doppelganger says:

      I want to be clear, the anti Islamist movement was and is important.
      Charles played a very important role in that. Just because one guy went crazy shouldn’t negate what is a very very important fight being waged in Europe.

      if the islamists win…..well I can’t even think of that.

      and Charles needs to own his role. He helped to create these guys. He didn’t pull trigger but neither did anybody else

      he can’t have it both ways

      • Pretzel Logic says:

        My comments were not intended in passing judgement of the anti-Islamist movement in any way. The anti-Islamist movement, and it’s politics and opinions are another subject all together. My emphasis (and like your statement above) is simply directed at charles and his active participation in the past of that movement.

        As I said, he was part and parcel of that movement, along with “Fjordman,” Spencer, geller, GoV, Daniel Pipes and numerous other well known personalities with in that movement.

        Own up to it Charles.

    • Beau Gus says:

      If we want to be anally accurate, Esman wasn’t laying the blame on LGF or Geller or Fjordman or anyone other than Breivik. She was just pointing out the nexus of anti-jihadi opinion in the world. If Johnson doesn’t like that, tough.

      • Guy says:

        in fact all she said is that breivik “read” blogs “such as” atlas and lgf. she had no reason whatsoever to strike the mention of lgf, as there is no possible way a lawyer would even accept a retainer on a libel case with those facts.

    • Banshee says:

      Except he got out of that crowd so long ago, and made such a public thing of it, there’s not much rope to hang him with, is there? Not even enough to tie a pretzel knot.

      Speller and Gencer, on the other hand, are gonna need some kinda big distraction in the next few days. Like a combination oil spill/nuclear accident/jihadi attack on the Statue of Liberty.

      • Beau Gus says:

        Ya sure, ya betcha… 🙄

      • Guy says:

        you understand the significance that the “crowd” he “got out of” was the crowd he created, right?

        the analogy isn’t “i was a young german with no job and no prospects when i heard this charismatic leader shouting about the way forward”.

        it’s hitler himself saying the holocaust was all the ss’s idea and that people are trying to “smear” him by claiming he had anything to do with writing mein kamph.

      • Mandingo Warrior says:

        Jesus banshee, youre whipping a dead horse missing the point. Sure, chuck “changed his mind” about fjordman. FjordmAn never “changed his mind” about what he said.

        So, cj therefore agreed with him at some point. Agreed with him, linked to him, read him, and published his work flatteringly.

        So what? Yeah, so what. Don’t then say someone needs to own it when, for all intents, he started it and changed his mind about it.

    • Notchabusiness says:

      There is, of course, no evidence that Breivik ever participated at LGF. The rest of your point has already been addressed in my first comment.

      “Abigail R. Esman is precisely correct in pointing out who Anders Behring Breivik quotes and WHERE he obtained those quotes from… from LGF.”

      No, both her and Briareus’ claims are false exactly because Breivik doesn’t quote Charles and LGF in his book – Fjordman does. The difference is significant.

      • HolyRomanStuff says:

        Perhaps I am simply missing something here, but either the above is true, or this is true:

        “Nobody disputes that there are links to old LGF and other “counter-Jihad” blogs in the file.”

        As for this:

        “No, both her and Briareus’ claims are false exactly because Breivik doesn’t quote Charles and LGF in his book – Fjordman does. ”

        Who is Fjordman quoting?

      • St. Pancake says:

        Notchabusiness :
        There is, of course, no evidence that Breivik ever participated at LGF. .

        Charles Johnson has no evidence that Geller or Spenser advocated, endorsed or encouraged the psycho to kill people. Why does your master keep pushing a connection?

      • Notchabusiness says:

        HolyRomanStuff, Breivik took several of Fjordman’s essays wholesale and put them into his “compendium”. LGF links are in these essays. In the rest of the book Breivik writes nothing about LGF and doesn’t rely on it. Contrary to the claims at this blog.

      • Guy says:

        how would you know. is charles performing the due dilligence in applying his famed “correlator tool” to the task? if he did find a match, perhaps even a user account named “abbreivik”, would he share that info do you think? if you performed the necessary search strings at the blog, do you suppose he would allow you to retain your account?

        these are rhetorical questions of course. i don’t issue them expecting an honest answer.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        Not only rhetorical, but pretty idiotic as well. There _is_ no evidence. If and when it appears, there will be evidence. As of now there isn’t. So you can’t say that Breivik was an LGF member just on your hunch or because of your LGF hatred. It’s really simple.

      • Guy says:

        are you pursuing that evidence, or are you content to let it remain unknown?

      • Notchabusiness says:

        I don’t chase red herrings.

      • Guy says:

        that you chase red herrings long past the point at which it becomes a bore, is one thing that is in abundant evidence.

        enjoy being sophomoric.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        What’s funny is that people here seem to think of such irrational replies as convincing or meaningful.

  49. doppelganger says:

    93 dead.

    HIT THE TIP JAR

  50. HolyRomanStuff says:

    snowcrash :
    Notchabiz is sergey romanoff from LGF. How come you won’t use your real name? Afraid of the consequences? Surely Charles values your defense of his good name enough to allow you to use your usual nic at the unapproved sites. Lol you guys are afraid.

    Obvious questions that will undoubtedly go without an answer. And as far as Sergey goes, he was extremely careful to leave out any mention of LGF being linked to by this nut job in his page on this subject. How…brave.

  51. pat says:

    While it is true that CJ’s finger pointing is outrageous to the extent it Kosian, the same game should not be played here. No one inspired this madman other then himself. His hatred for the Labour Party clearly surpassed his hatred for Muslims. And frankly I don’t think any of the players mentioned have ever spent much time either discussing or even professing deep knowledge of Labour. Breivik’s attorney announced that his client would be extremely cooperative in revealing his motivations. I doubt they will make a whit of sense.
    CJ is attempting to create a firestorm where there is none. I suspect he is emailing all sorts of ‘discovered’ information to Kos, DU, MSNBC, HP. So far the MSM is not buying any of his nonsense. The European press is treating him like a madman. I note that he is not even the lead story, but the second after Winehouse in Britain. He is third story in The Local (Sweden).The European left is busy linking him to neoNazi groups and in that they are likely right. This lunatic , while professing some backhanded support for Israel, wished that Jews had been deported from Europe, and ranted about liberal Jews being disloyal, etc. I think he saw Jews merely as another enemy of Islam and have no liking for them at all. Kilgore and CJ’s attempt to draw Geller, Spencer, etc. into the fray is not only infantile, it is simply wrong.

  52. Notchabusiness says:

    Beau Gus :
    Get a dictionary. Idiot.

    Fuck off, animal.

  53. I love the lizards trying to explain why Fjordman was banned. Everyone could look it up for themselves, if CJ hadn’t memory-holed it all.

    These were the handful of threads Johnson put up regarding Fjordman’s departure:

    27911_Fjordmans_Dramatic_Exit(s)
    27964_Fjordmans_Obsession
    28211_Fjordman-_Still_Obsessing_Still_Obfuscating
    29911_Another_3600_Words_from_Fjordman

    I’ll see if I can convene The Boiler Room and look into resurrecting these as well…

    • HolyRomanStuff says:

      A worthy endeavor.

    • jd says:

      Fjordman was banned trying to explain European culture to Charles. Charles interprets it as white supremeism. Fjordman laid it out as cultural integrity. Subsequent actions in Europe have more so supported Fjordman’s view. Anyone with a lick of sense can see where Charles projects his inner fascism onto what he considers fascist targets. He wields a broad brush. Throws the baby out with the bath water. Fjordman assumed Charles would not be so immature or cavalier and would be open to a logical discussion.

      Fjordman was banned/left LGF several times. Charles welcomed him back on a few occasions before Charles went into his fit.

    • jd says:

      Fjordman was banned trying to explain European culture to Charles. Charles interprets it as white supremeism. Fjordman laid it out as cultural integrity. Subsequent actions in Europe have more so supported Fjordman’s view. Anyone with a lick of sense can see where Charles projects his inner fascism onto what he considers fascist targets. He wields a broad brush. Throws the baby out with the bath water. Fjordman assumed Charles would not be so immature or cavalier and would be open to a logical discussion.

      Fjordman was banned/left LGF several times. Charles welcomed him back on a few occasions before Charles went into his fit.

      And a good point that Charles is trying to hide all this.

  54. Notchabusiness says:

    Emperor :
    As soon as you read this post, I want you to look at the top right corner of your screen. Do you see that button with the “X” on it? Yes? Good. Click it. Then, after that, I want you to open your browser, navigate back home to littlegreenfootballs.com, where you can communicate with individuals of similar intelligence to you.

    But then the collective IQ here will drop well below 5.

  55. swamprat says:

    Who ya gonna believe; charles, or your own lyin’ eyes?

    h/t
    Richard Pryor

  56. Notchabusiness says:

    poteen :

    . Briareus removed a whole big link between Charles and Breivik – i.e. Fjordman, and tried to tie Breivik directly to Charles.

    Briareus did not.

    Yes he did, as I have shown with evidence.

  57. HolyRomanStuff says:

    Notchabusiness :
    I’m not really interested in rehashing the history of “anti-Jihadi” movement.

    Well, who might have guessed this? After all, history began in 2007 or so, didn’t it?

  58. Pretzel Logic says:

    Notchabusiness :

    Emperor :
    As soon as you read this post, I want you to look at the top right corner of your screen. Do you see that button with the “X” on it? Yes? Good. Click it. Then, after that, I want you to open your browser, navigate back home to littlegreenfootballs.com, where you can communicate with individuals of similar intelligence to you.

    But then the collective IQ here will drop well below 5.

    You can drop stilted and hag-worn old gag lines all you want here, but nothing you say (or don’t say) will change the absolute truth of the following statement…

    Charles complains that someone is… “lumping me in with the “counter-jihad” bigots.” It’s no wonder, he WAS one of those counter-jihad “bigots” at one time, which can be proven by the history and legacy of Little Green Footballs. This would be like a killer, serving a life sentence, proclaim “Well, I use to be a killer, but I haven’t killed anyone in 3 years, so don’t be lumping me in with the other killers in this prison.”

    You haven’t been on LGF as long as many of us have, and I’ve been there well before most of the folks here have, and your actual knowledge of the political and social flavor of the LGF of the past is sorely lacking in any reality. Charles was a pioneer of the anti-Jihad movement in the past and deserves all the recognition due him for that distinction.

    Go get some education on the subject and then get back to me.

    • Notchabusiness says:

      No, nothing will change the fact that this blog lies about the quotes in question being Breivik’s own words. Your defense of lies is pretty pathetic.

      • Pretzel Logic says:

        Sergey,

        You just attempted to answer my question to you with a question. Not too smart coming from someone who is bragging about collective IQ. I don’t see anything in my comment that was addressing your gripe about this blog and it’s “lies.” English must not be your native language.

      • swamprat says:

        Pretty nice of charles to appologize to Fjordman for his false accusations,,…. Oh wait, that didn’t happen. You seem at ease with some lies, more than others, why is that?

      • jd says:

        Charles lied first. lol.

        Brevik either did have an LGF account or he cut and paste Fjordman liberally without any distinctions. It reads to me like Breivik did have an account. It can be proven otherwise.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        > You just attempted to answer my question to you with a question.

        Oh, but I’m not interested in your musings that do not concern the topic at hand.

        > English must not be your native language

        Oh gee, how did you guess, Einstein.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        > Charles lied first. lol.

        Thank you for admitting that you lied (not that I accept that “Charles lied first”).

        > Brevik either did have an LGF account or he cut and paste Fjordman liberally without any distinctions.

        He actually does write “by Fjordman” numerous times. It’s not a plagiarism.

        > It reads to me like Breivik did have an account.

        What “reads” to you? I have no idea whether Breivik had an account, many creeps did in the olden times. But there is no evidence that Breivik had an account, and moreover, this is kinda irrelevant to the discussion.

      • gizbot7 says:

        Notchabusiness :
        > Charles lied first. lol.
        Thank you for admitting that you lied (not that I accept that “Charles lied first”).
        > Brevik either did have an LGF account or he cut and paste Fjordman liberally without any distinctions.
        He actually does write “by Fjordman” numerous times. It’s not a plagiarism.
        > It reads to me like Breivik did have an account.
        What “reads” to you? I have no idea whether Breivik had an account, many creeps did in the olden times. But there is no evidence that Breivik had an account, and moreover, this is kinda irrelevant to the discussion.

        Wow. ESL or not, you are not the brightest bulb, are you? Surely Ceej can find a better troll than you to extol his virtues.

      • jd says:

        Notchabusisness see you are still not reading it correctly. I haven’t lied about anything. I am just commenting on what I see here. Your psychology is bad here and it will help you if you just write facts. Trolling shit is a waste of braincells.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        That was a collective “you”, as in “this blog”. In retrospect, shouldn’t have used it as it confuses things.

  59. swamprat says:

    Somebody from THE BOILER ROOM look up my interactions with a troll- like creature talking about how he came from some country where he used a crossbow…we might have your criiter. What could it hurt to look?

  60. DEZ says:

    Notchabusiness :
    You have not addressed the _fact_ that Briareus makes false claims.

    Nor have you addressed CJ doing the exact thing you are complaining about.

    • Notchabusiness says:

      I don’t believe he does such a thing, but I’m not here to address your other charges either. If you do believe that he does such a thing, does that give you an excuse to do exact same thing to him?

      • jd says:

        Be conservative and not slipper slope in your analysis and you will see Charles crossed a line. Several times. Lack of civilization. you’re absorbing that just by posting there. It will just make you weak.

      • DEZ says:

        I Know for a fact he does, and I see no lies in the article, I only see a troll with a severe case of butt hurt.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        > I see no lies in the article

        Then you’re a moron, because the article falsely attributes Fjordman’s words to Breivik.

      • Guy says:

        okay. i have to apologise to sergey. “notchabusiness” is clearly a sock for obdicut. wish i recognized that before i took it seriously.

      • gizbot7 says:

        I suspected a much a little bit ago, but I’m not great at identifying which individuals are which from there. They are all so similar in so many unflattering ways.

  61. jd says:

    It’s interesting how the internet companies are trying to scrub original documents about this off the internet. Knowledge suppression

  62. jd says:

    What is Et Norsk Troll opinions on this?

  63. St. Pancake says:

    Sergey Romanov Sun, Jul 24, 2011 11:18:28am 2

    Multiculturalism is fine as long as cultures are compatible. Multiculturalism should not tolerate oppression of women and other groups merely because some culture has such a tradition. Not all cultures are equal.

    Not all cultures are equal. I wonder if that’s in the killer’s manifesto?

  64. Pretzel Logic says:

    Notchabusiness :
    > You just attempted to answer my question to you with a question.
    Oh, but I’m not interested in your musings that do not concern the topic at hand.
    > English must not be your native language
    Oh gee, how did you guess, Einstein.

    Stalin was good at “disappearing” people too. If the subject contains too much truth, rip that page from the book. Some things never change. Is it ethnic?

  65. poteen says:

    Notchabusiness :

    poteen :

    . Briareus removed a whole big link between Charles and Breivik – i.e. Fjordman, and tried to tie Breivik directly to Charles.

    Briareus did not.

    Yes he did, as I have shown with evidence.

    No you did not.

    The purpose of posting portions of the deranged terrorist’s “manifesto” is not to blame Charles Johnson or anyone connected with Little Green Footballs for yesterday’s atrocities. The purpose is to illustrate that Charles Johnson has stooped so low as to use this abhorrent event to attempt to destroy his own imagined enemies with innuendo, guilt by
    association, slander, character assassination, defamation, and fraud.
    Charles Johnson owes public apologies to Fjordman, Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer and others.

    And as for this little gem

    This blog does excuse Spencer, Geller and Fjordman, so by your own logic it does just what you said.

    Excuse them for WHAT?
    Something Charlie said they did?

    • Notchabusiness says:

      > No you did not.

      Yes, I did, and nobody has addressed the evidence. Saying “no you didn’t” doesn’t cut it.

      > Excuse them for WHAT?

      This will make no sense to you unless you understand the context of the discussion with “Guy”.

  66. swamprat says:

    Talk to me about unequal cultures. You know, I have seen folks banned for much less. That is how Fjordy got banned if I remember correctly.

    Your logic is tenuous at best and your own moral stands seem flawed. You do not seem to be on firm footing either way. You deny the truth when you see it directly in front of you. I appreciate you coming over to defend lgf, but you are only causing more evidence to be brought up. Eventually even you will understand that you are only quibbling and attempting to parse finely enough to declare yourself a “winner”. but as you thrash about you just gather more rope about you. We are not trying to “argue” with you. We were there. We know what happened because it was happening with and to, us.

    You accomplish little with this.

    Sorry.

    But I do appreciate your coming by. Truely.

  67. HolyRomanStuff says:

    Notchabusiness :
    HolyRomanStuff, Breivik took several of Fjordman’s essays wholesale and put them into his “compendium”. LGF links are in these essays. In the rest of the book Breivik writes nothing about LGF and doesn’t rely on it. Contrary to the claims at this blog.

    I think the point being made, whoever you might be, is that Charles and Fjordman ran in the same circles for a number of years. If that is indeed the case, why then is it not fair and proper to lay the blame for this tragedy at everyone’s feet, including Mr. Johnson? That is not how I would care to frame the issue, but clearly it is how Johnson, and by extension, perhaps, you, would care to frame the issue.

    We are talking about influence here, are we not? And wasn’t Johnson a seminal influence in the early days after 9/11 in the so called “anti-jihadist” movement? Someone up thread mentioned Johnson as a progenitor of the movement. While I think that gives him too much credit, if we are going to play this silly game, why shouldn’t Johnson also be included in the list of people who are now meant to flagellate themselves in the public square, who are now meant to share some burden of guilt for this insane man’s actions?

    I suspect you understand this point, but prefer to engage in semantics over substance. Personally, I believe the killer is responsible for this and no one else. Would that the proprietor of the blog you choose to frequent felt the same.

    As for the post being libelous, if that is your feeling, I urge you to urge Mr. Johnson to contact a lawyer and litigate this in court.

    • Notchabusiness says:

      The point being made is that this blog falsely claims that Fjordman’s quotes mentioning LGF belong to Breivik. Spare me the rest.

      • swamprat says:

        ok. We heard you. We are liars and you are right. So noted.

        Yea!

        You won!!

      • HolyRomanStuff says:

        Ah, I see. Then I urge you to press your case in court.

      • Guy says:

        charles johnson’s words belong to charles johnson.

        you know what this sophomoric distinction-without-difference is like? it’s like if david duke quoted george wallis quoting robert byrd saying, “n****rs are dirty apes.”; your contention would be that it’s a “lie” to call byrd a racist.

  68. DEZ says:

    Notchabusiness :
    > I see no lies in the article
    Then you’re a moron, because the article falsely attributes Fjordman’s words to Breivik.

    Woohoo I have been called a moron by a drooling asshat, I am shattered.
    NOT.

    • Notchabusiness says:

      Not only called, but proved to be one. Be proud.

      • DEZ says:

        you have proven nothing, other than you miss the points made here and that you have a very high opinion of yourself that is richly undeserved.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        Sure I have proved that you’re a moron: there are lies in the article (fact), you don’t see them (said so yourself). Ergo: moron.

  69. Beau Gus says:

    Flying Spaghetti Monster in Heaven, does this troll have a reset button?

    • snowcrash says:

      He has an endless appetite for arguing. Remember Medaura? Same style. Must be Eastern Euro thing. Kinda bores me after a while. Did I tell you I like all the variations on the Beau nic? I do.

      • Beau Gus says:

        Actually, he reminds me of this Norwegian nut named Gunnar who hangs out at Climate Audit, but yeah.

    • swamprat says:

      Leave him alone. He is learning.

  70. Emperor says:

    Banshee :
    Except he got out of that crowd so long ago, and made such a public thing of it, there’s not much rope to hang him with, is there? Not even enough to tie a pretzel knot.
    Speller and Gencer, on the other hand, are gonna need some kinda big distraction in the next few days. Like a combination oil spill/nuclear accident/jihadi attack on the Statue of Liberty.

    He said he was wrong about Fjordman, Geller etc but it was an “I’m sorry he duped me” kind of admission.

    Never – ever – has he addressed the fact that they are saying the same thing now as they said 5 years ago. He is the one who’s changed, yet he still goes on saying “I disassociated myself from them because they started going crazy”.

  71. Zimriel says:

    Johnson better be careful lest Forbes starts up a lawsuit against him. Imagine what the discovery process will turn up. And if Johnson deletes anything . . .

    • Beau Gus says:

      Libel isn’t as easy to sue for in the US as the ROW. Such a suit would probably be tossed out summarily, as thy’re both “media” (broadly speaking).

  72. jd says:

    It’s posted on the internet that this guy plagiarized the unabomber heavily.

    Anders Behring Breivik Manifest which he titled 2083 – A European Declaration of Independence is for the most part a plagiarized version of book called The Unabomber Manifesto authored by Theodore Kaczynski. The main difference is that in The Unabomber Manifesto, Theodore Kaczynski refers to the enemy as “leftists” whereas in 2083 – A European Declaration of Independence, Anders Behring Breivik uses the term “Multiculturalism”. Otherwise the portions of text are vastly copied from the book written by Theodore Kaczynski. Thanks Phil for that one.

  73. DEZ says:

    Notchabusiness :
    Sure I have proved that you’re a moron: there are lies in the article (fact), you don’t see them (said so yourself). Ergo: moron.

    Keep deluding yourself little snowFLAKE.

  74. HolyRomanStuff says:

    Notchabusiness :
    …many creeps did in the olden times.

    And apparently more than a few in newer times as well, it seems.

  75. DEZ says:

    Have fun with the new chew toy, I have things to do.

  76. poteen says:

    Notchabusiness :
    > No you did not.
    Yes, I did, and nobody has addressed the evidence. Saying “no you didn’t” doesn’t cut it.
    > Excuse them for WHAT?
    This will make no sense to you unless you understand the context of the discussion with “Guy”.

    You offered evidence of nothing. At best proof of your own miscomprehension.

    And your discussion with Guy assumes what I do not ,, that Geller and Spencer are guilty of hate speech or incitement or some thing. There is no basis in this and hence no reason to excuse anything.

    • Notchabusiness says:

      Yes, I have proven that this blog lies about the quotes being Breivik’s words rather than Fjordman’s.

      • swamprat says:

        You have proven then, that Breivik quoted Fjordy?
        And this blog getting that wrong does what?

        Has that changed anythng?

        Has it changed johnson’s history?

        His influence? His past? What have you accomplished?

      • poteen says:

        The post clearly states that the excerpts are from Breivik’s manifesto. Your argument is with Breivik as to who he quotes.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        > The post clearly states that the excerpts are from Breivik’s manifesto. Your argument is with Breivik as to who he quotes.

        Learn to read.

        “Here are Anders Behring Breivik’s own unedited words as expressed in his “Manifesto.”

        “What is posted above are the thoughts and words of a madman, edited only for their relevance to Charles Johnson’s Little Green Footballs.”

      • jd says:

        You’re mistaking what a lie is. Bunkx is reporting what he has read. A lie would mean he purposely faked something. Which he has not done. Call the shot correctly or we can just as easily brand you as a liar and a cheat.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        This might have been a fair point, but after the falsity of the statements has been pointed out, and the people who run this blog haven’t updated/amended the claims, the distinction is lost.

      • poteen says:

        Right! So are you saying Fjordman Wrote the manifesto? Hence Briareus lied?
        Or Breivik used Fjordman’s words and wrote it himself.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        Read the book yourself, whydoncha. Parts of the book are by AB himself. Parts of the book are just copypasted Fjordman’s essays attributed to Fjordman. It’s in the latter part that LGF is referenced.

      • poteen says:

        It is a petty point.. As petty a point as your accusation of lying hinges on.
        There are Fjordman quotes in Breivik’s manifesto. Those quotes reference LGF.
        Fjordman did not put them in Breivik’s book. Breivik did.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        It’s not a petty point, because there is an obvious difference between being quoted and ref’d by the murderer (which means the murderer was directly inspired by you) and non-murderer, even the one who served as an inspiration for the former (in the latter case an inspiration particularly from LGF is extremely non-obvious – maybe AB mostly liked the parts not based on LGF, but obviously he wouldn’t cut the rest of the article out).

  77. antilgfwarrior says:

    Notchabusiness :
    The point being made is that this blog falsely claims that Fjordman’s quotes mentioning LGF belong to Breivik. Spare me the rest.

    The fact remains that Breivik was a fan boy of Charles.He was a reader of Littlegreenfootballs.com,not all the Littlegreenfootballs.com links used by Breivik concern Fjordman. Breivik used littlegreenfootballs.com for reference. Breivik was not only a reader of littlegreenfootballs,he was also aware of comments made on the site.

  78. Emperor says:

    Notchabusiness :
    Yes, I have proven that this blog lies about the quotes being Breivik’s words rather than Fjordman’s.

    Hey idiot. The accusation that Charles Johnson made was that, since Pamela Geller was referenced in this guy’s writings, she incited him to commit mass murder.

    This post simply says, erm, that Charles Johnson and littlegreenfootballs.com are also referenced.

    So either Charles Johnson is a hatemonger who committed incitement, or he was just using a heinous crime as a way to attack his political opponents, literally only minutes after the attack. Actually, the second is true either way, but whatever.

    • Notchabusiness says:

      No, moron, this post says that Breivik referenced LGF in his own words. He didn’t. It was Fjordman. Ergo: this blog lied.

      • Emperor says:

        First of all, he did reference LGF in his own words; just the vast majority of the references in the manifesto are from Fjordman essays.

        What’s your point? The fact is that LGF was referenced in the manifesto, both directly, and indirectly via Fjordman.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        Where does he (and not Fjordman) ref. LGF in the book?

      • Emperor says:

        Page 573 was the first reference I was able to find.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        That’s still Fjordman, “Is Islam Compatible With Democracy?”. Try again.

      • Bunk X says:

        So when Charles quotes and links to Fjordman it’s cool, but when Breivik quotes and links to Charles it doesn’t count, but it does with Geller, Spencer and Fjordman. Got it.

  79. Notchabusiness says:

    > The fact remains that Breivik was a fan boy of Charles

    There is no evidence of that.

    > He was a reader of Littlegreenfootballs.com,not all the Littlegreenfootballs.com links used by Breivik concern Fjordman

    I know only of 1 link at document.no. If anyone wants to use this fact (that has already been publicly addressed by Charles) – fine. Doesn’t make him a fan boy though. When he explicitly expressed his admiration, he named the names: Geller, Spencer, Fjordman, some others.

    And the fact remains that this blog falsely claims that the quotes are Breivik’s words.

    • swamprat says:

      You must at some point understand that you are trying to “win” a point that has no weight and in so doing you have exposed the true role and scope that johnson played in this debacle. To his credit, he did eventually distance himself from the more . . . exuberant. But he did play a large part in their developement. He is not being upfront about all the issues, which would not have mattered if he had not started casting stones.

      You must see this. It is hard to avoid. The yelling is covering nothing up. It is only drawing attention to some rather embarressing things he doesn’t seem to want to touch upon.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        > that you are trying to “win” a point that has no weight

        Obviously we differ on whether it has no weight.

        As for the rest, I have addressed this in the first comment. I haven’t come here to make excuses for the past LGF-F ties.

      • swamprat says:

        Well, thank you for playing. I understand that all concerned are trying to do what is best. We disagree but I expected nothing different.

        You may continue on as you will, but real life calls.

        Ciao

  80. jd says:

    I’ve read part of the manifesto. The guy is not loughner crazy. He wants to end multi culturalism in Eurpoe violently, then cleanse Europe of muslims.

  81. Zimriel says:

    jd :
    What is Et Norsk Troll opinions on this?

    The resident bridge-dweller is commenting at The Blogmocracy today. He’s okay.

  82. Emperor says:

    Notchabusiness :
    > The fact remains that Breivik was a fan boy of Charles
    There is no evidence of that.

    Well, then again, Charles also said that there was no evidence that conclusively proved that it was not him in the picture Anthony Weiner in his underwear…..

  83. jd says:

    This part was written by Fjordman and quoted in whole in the manifesto by Breivik.

    2.18 Democracy and the Media Bias (Breivik or Andrew Berwick???), London, England – 2011

    Justiciar Knight Commander for Knights Templar Europe and one of several leaders of the National and pan-European Patriotic Resistance Movement (not sure if these two people are the same)

    By Fjordman

    Dr. Chanan Naveh, who used to edit the Israel Broadcasting Authority radio’s news desk, mentioned, with no regrets, examples in which he and his colleagues made a concerted effort to change public opinion: “Three broadcasters – Carmela Menashe, Shelly Yechimovich [later a Labour party Knesset Member], and I – pushed in every way possible the withdrawal from Lebanon towards 2000… I have no doubt that we promoted an agenda of withdrawal that was a matter of public dispute.” As Charles Johnson of American anti-Jihad blog Little Green Footballs[4] commented: “Journalists are no longer in the business of simply reporting facts and events; increasingly, they see their job as ‘activism,’ and the points of view they promote are invariably leftist and transnationalist. Honest journalists will admit this outright, and we see the pernicious effects of this information manipulation and filtering everywhere.”

  84. ChenZhen says:

    Oh my…new thread up at the swamp, and CJ has the gall to use the phrase “blood on their hands” wrt Spencer and Geller.

    That’s some serious gall.

  85. Beau Gus says:

    CTL-ALT-DEL doesn’t do squat. Must be an Apple troll.

  86. jd says:

    Pamela Geller is mentioned in the manifestor only in the context of a copies Fjordman article. Pretty much the same way Charles is mentioned as far as I can tell.

  87. Banshee says:

    There’s some real talent for doublethink here. When it suits, it’s “Charles never created anything, it was his contributors who made LGF.” Five seconds later, when convenience dictates, we learn that CJ single-handedly called the entire anti-jihad into being. Either way, he dropped it all starting back in 2007 when he began to notice some of the company his company was keeping, so today he’s in the clear. The point that Geller and the rest of the Kreepy Krew are all still saying the same things and hanging with the same tainted Euro groups is not much to their credit, I ween. Not today. Your kilometerage may vary.

    • Beau Gus says:

      And if he were a practicing Catholic, he could go to confession, and ask for forgiveness. But where do atheists go?

    • jd says:

      nope just pointing out to Charles that he is yelling peoples hands aren’t clean. Well then his aren’t either. this Spencer group is denying membership to neo nazis. If you are complaining about doublethink, then the narrowthink is also in play.

      I see only Fjordman as an influence here. But if you look at all the people referenced in this manifesto it basically covers the human population of the world.

      Geller and Spencer are just targets of opportunity for Charles when instead he should be mourning the loss of the 90 kids instead of grinding his axe.

    • Emperor says:

      You are neglecting the fact that the references to Charles Johnson in Fjordman’s essays are quotes from Johnson directly. They are things that Johnson himself said.

      To emphasize: Charles Johnson has never,ever said: “I associated myself with radicals, and I am wrong, and I am sorry”.

      He has simply gave the impression that Geller, Fjordman etc. were once sane, but then sold themselves out to radicals. In other words: he didn’t change, they did.

      That is false, and a lie, and he needs to be called out on that.

    • I don’t see how you can rationalize “in the clear”. The influence obviously took root while CJ was proudly posting all that stuff. The fact that he later changed his mind doesn’t seem relevant. It happened. The links are there. You can’t undo it.

      (but I have a feeling that the memory hole will fill up a bit more)

  88. jd says:

    From the 2083 Manifesto. Pictures of him as a Mason and as a decorated soldier.

    I believe this will be my last entry. It is now Fri July 22nd, 12.51.

    Sincere regards,

    Andrew Berwick
    Justiciar Knight Commander
    Knights Templar Europe
    Knights Templar Norway

  89. Briareus says:

    Since the “Manifesto” is apparently a hoax, I’ve updated the post:

    [UPDATE: APPARENTLY THE “MANIFESTO” IS A HOAX. Regardless, the point of this post still stands, that Charles Johnson assumed the paper to be legitimate (as did we and many others) and used it to attack other bloggers with charges of guilt-by-association. –Ed.]

    • Beau Gus says:

      So where’s the link on that?

    • jd says:

      Pretty extensive hoax. It’s hard to tell on the internet these days. If it is a hoax I would say that it is a crime. But that is something that should be considered. How to separate out the tragedy from the resulting media. a 72 hour rule should probably be in effect instead of the normal 24 hour one.

      And if it is a hoax then Charles is the only one guilty here.

    • beed says:

      Then you know more than the Norwegian press combined. I do not for a minute believe this is a hoax. Link?

      • Beau Gus says:

        There may be some confusion over which document is genuine. A manifesto pretty clearly exists. The question is, is it that document that was quoted from in this thread, or is it something else.

        We already know that there’s some deliberate disinformation going on with that claim that Breivik is Fjordman. I think we can expect more such opportunism.

      • Briareus says:

        See my response below. It makes no difference if it is a hoax or not in the context of this blog post.

  90. Zimriel says:

    Banshee: Unlike at LGF these days, there are multitudes of people who came out of LGF and own their own opinions. I mean for God’s sake, THIS forum isn’t even moderated.

    I never said “Charles never created anything”. Charles “created” at least three “things”. First, he created a community; now in exile, but largely intact. (Leave aside whatever you think about this community.) Second, he created website expertise for others. A third, less tangible perhaps, he posted under his own name and underwent real sacrifice, giving others the courage to post what they thought.

    And despite all that’s happened since, I still think that what LGF did, which is what the counterjihad continues to do, remains valuable. Please do explore Daedalus or Blogmocracy, whatever else people say in here, and find where anyone has said or endorsed “Let’s go out and shoot a bunch of democrat teenz lol”. You’ll be at it awhile, which is fine by me.

    But first, go get your fuckin’ shinebox.

  91. beed says:

    And here we go. Let me present to you, ladies and ladymen, mr. Charles Johnson:

    People like Fjordman and Pamela Geller and the right wing blogosphere who refused to denounce the extremists among them now have the very real blood of children on their hands.

  92. Briareus says:

    I’m not sure whether or not it’s real, hence the weasel word “apparently” in the update. We’ll leave it up to the experts to determine authenticity. There does appear to be a lot of cut and paste in the “manifesto,” but that doesn’t absolve Charles Johnson of his dishonest smear attempts on Fjordman, Geller, Spencer and others.

    http://www.theblogmocracy.com/2011/07/23/the-charles-johnson-lgf-connection/#comment-820897

  93. beed says:

    mattand  
    Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:15:00pm0downupreport

    Back in the day, I linked to Fjordman’s articles myself; he was a big self-promoter and would email and ask for links every time he posted something. But sometime around 2007 (when I criticized him and other “counter-jihad” bloggers for making deals with extreme right wing European groups) it became clear that his seeming erudition and extreme logorrhea was a cover for a particularly nasty form of European white nationalism.

    I hate to be “that guy”, but what was it about Fjordman’s article that interested you in the first place? He sounds like a nasty piece of work.

  94. Notchabusiness says:

    “UPDATE: APPARENTLY THE “MANIFESTO” IS A HOAX”

    LOL, you guys are irredeemable imbeciles.

    • beed says:

      Yes we are!

    • I assume you’re an active LGFer, so I wonder if you’d do everyone a favor and ask Johnson if he’d restore all the old Fjordman threads he memory-holed, now that he’s made this valiant whitewashing attempt wrt his prior association with him.

      In the interest of full disclosure and integrity and all that….

      • Notchabusiness says:

        Chen, you’re one of the admins and posters at a conspiracy theory site (see above) that more often than not lies about LGF (though obviously, “veee arr just mokking” defense will be used). So let’s not talk about integrity.

      • If you can find where I’ve lied about anything I’ve posted let me know, and I’ll gladly make a correction.

        But I’ve been told via email that we’ve recovered the missing articles, so we’ll post ’em up and let the truth sink in.

      • Notchabusiness says:

        I mean the site lies, not you personally. (And by this I do not mean you’re not lying either, just to be clear (because that’s not my argument either way). It’s just whether you do or not, you do participate together with people who do promote obviously false claims constantly, the worst offender being Rodan.)

      • jd says:

        notchabusiness, by your apparent definition every web site lies if they have at least one 404 error. Put some degrees of wisdom into what you think is a lie.

    • beed says:

      WE HAVE NO HONOR!

  95. MrPaulRevere says:

    From the ‘You knew it was coming eventually’ file, the real culprit is……Andrew Breitbart: http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/norway-terrorist-breivik-was-ardent-

    • Beau Gus says:

      These lefties should really be careful with those kinds of arguments, lest the unibomber discredit all of environmentalism, etc.

  96. beed says:

    52 Charles  
    Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:24:11pm11downupreport

    re: #39 mattand

    I hate to be “that guy”, but what was it about Fjordman’s article that interested you in the first place? He sounds like a nasty piece of work.

    He didn’t just write these articles – he also frequently emailed links to info on radical Islam, and for a while there was nothing obviously racist about what he wrote. At the time I was looking for any and all information on radical Islam, and he seemed to have quite a bit of it.
    Do I wish I could have seen what he and Spencer and the rest of them were up to a little bit sooner? Yes, I sure do; it’s hard to really judge someone you know only through the Internet.
    But as soon as the scales fell from my eyes I walked … no, ran away from that crowd..

  97. beed says:

    This is how you take the truth, toss it, and spin it around:

    73 Killgore Trout  
    Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:34:17pm8downupreport

    As many of us old time lizards remember not all the stuff on “counterjihad” blogs is hateful racist BS. Radical Islam, terrorism, human rights, etc are serious issues and should be discussed. Even hot topics like immigration and assimiliation should be discussed openly. The problem is that these topics attract bigots, supremacists, religious fanatics and extremists. The legitimate issues regarding radical Islam haven’t gone away but the debate has been hijacked by radicals on both sides. LGF fought like hell to keep the radicals away from “our” side of the debate. We lost that battle.

    • beed says:

      And then there is this bastard:

      80 recusancy  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:37:38pm2downupreport

      re: #73 Killgore Trout

      I’m sorry but this place was pretty radical then. I applaud the change but that doesn’t rewrite the history of this place.

      • snowcrash says:

        Recusancy has seen thru their pitiful attempts to excuse themselves other times too. Charles usually posts a new thread when the heat gets too hot.

  98. MrPaulRevere says:

    ChenZhen, as The Minotaur :
    I assume you’re an active LGFer, so I wonder if you’d do everyone a favor and ask Johnson if he’d restore all the old Fjordman threads he memory-holed, now that he’s made this valiant whitewashing attempt wrt his prior association with him.
    In the interest of full disclosure and integrity and all that….

    Do us a solid Sergey ole’ boy. Just to clear the air and all of that.

    • beed says:

      Oh yeah.

    • Zimriel says:

      Lulwut? How he follow LGF and not know about it? Gee, there’s only THOUSANDS of internet-active people whom CJ booted out who can remember past three / four years ago. You could fill a good-sized village from Kirly’s list alone.

  99. beed says:

    Check out the last paragraph!

    85 researchok  
    Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:42:51pm1downupreport

    re: #80 recusancy

    This place was opinionated but very different than the other sites.

    There were always smart people here- more than elsewhere- and notwithstanding the opinions, there were always good exchanges to be had, every day.

    A lot of the people from back then are here today and that is what distinguishes this place from everywhere else.

    • snowcrash says:

      Huh? She must have left out the word “not”. A lot of………are not here today

  100. ISTE says:

    ChenZhen, as The Minotaur :
    I love the lizards trying to explain why Fjordman was banned. Everyone could look it up for themselves, if CJ hadn’t memory-holed it all.
    These were the handful of threads Johnson put up regarding Fjordman’s departure:
    27911_Fjordmans_Dramatic_Exit(s)
    27964_Fjordmans_Obsession
    28211_Fjordman-_Still_Obsessing_Still_Obfuscating
    29911_Another_3600_Words_from_Fjordman
    I’ll see if I can convene The Boiler Room and look into resurrecting these as well…

    Chen, Check sludge tank 15B.

  101. Briareus says:

    [UPDATE No. 2: The MSM, including the Norwegian press, is treating the “Manifesto” as authentic. –Ed.]

    • ISTE says:

      The docx copy I have has a creation date of 03/07/2011, 17:53:00, Andrew Berwick.

      • Beau Gus says:

        That, of course, can be faked, but if so, you’re dealing with a reasonably clever fraudster, and not your typical dumbfuck.

  102. TreBob says:

    Notchabusiness :
    “UPDATE: APPARENTLY THE “MANIFESTO” IS A HOAX”
    LOL, you guys are irredeemable imbeciles.

    Yo Chief! Why don’t you post under your LGF nick? You really should, it might make folks take you a bit more seriously.

    In fact, all you LGF trolls should use your nicks from LGF or at least post an explanation as to why you feel like you shouldn’t use them when posting here?

    • MrPaulRevere says:

      Its ‘Sergey Romanov’ from LGF.

      • TreBob says:

        That’s not the point. None of the LGF trolls (the ones who always seem to fault DoD) use the nicks they us at LGF. It’s a fascinating dynamic. If LGF is such a wonderful, diverse, caring place then using their LGF nicks here should be fine and they should be proud to display their association. The fact that NONE of them dare to show their identity or pride in LGF is a testament to how repressed they really are.

        Reggie was the only troll here to ID himself, but he was already whacked from LGF at the time so he doesn’t count.

      • Beau Gus says:

        Spacecheese does.

      • Mr Caps says:

        Spacejesus (who’s karma happened to have moved into positive territory I might add) is the only one from the swamp who has guts to use his lgf nick here. The rest are all leftwing cowards.

  103. Notchabusiness :
    Chen, you’re one of the admins and posters at a conspiracy theory site (see above) that more often than not lies about LGF (though obviously, “veee arr just mokking” defense will be used). So let’s not talk about integrity.

    Blah, blah, blah. Why aren’t you curious about seeing the threads Charles flushed? <<<<This is what is known as a "rhetorical question".

  104. Mark says:

    “Back in the day, I linked to Fjordman’s articles myself; he was a big self-promoter and would email and ask for links every time he posted something.”

    Some of us were there then. Charles did a lot more than just “linked” to those articles. It was Fjordman’s home base of operations for a long time. Charles promoted the hell out of Fjordman just as he did with Spencer and Geller.

  105. Surgy Stroganoff says:

    Notchabusiness :
    I mean the site lies, not you personally. (And by this I do not mean you’re not lying either, just to be clear (because that’s not my argument either way). It’s just whether you do or not, you do participate together with people who do promote obviously false claims constantly, the worst offender being Rodan.)

    Just to clarify.

    You’re all lying liars who lie and claim to make true claims that are actually false claims which claim to claim, claim and blame.

    Clear enough?

    Now since there is nothing new in these threads for me, I’m off to LGF to proclaim victory over the stalkers and be rewarded by being permitted to remove the Cheetos crumbs from Charles’ scrotum with a feather duster.

  106. Pakimon says:

    Let’s try a different spin on the “guilt by association” ploy.

    Exhibit 1: Democrat Congressman involved in sex scandal

    Exhibit 2: This same congressman distributes a photo of himself in a furrie costume

    WUB is a known “furrie” and frequently posts at LGF with Charles’ blessing.

    Ergo, Charles is responsible for this congressman’s reprehensible behavior!

    He doesn’t even have the excuse of banning WUB!

    It’s clear as crystal! 😆

    • Beau Gus says:

      ‘Samatter wit you? You can’t tell a tiger from a chicken? Next thing, you’re gonna tell me a falcon is a mountain lion.

    • Emperor says:

      Actually, I think it’s deeper than that.

      David Wu represents Portland.

      WUB claims to be from Portland.

      Coincidence? I don’t think so.

  107. beed says:

    The manifesto is authentic. The insane fucker has admitted to writing/compiling it. He is very proud of it too.

    The 2006 Charles phoned and said “while I disagree with some of his methods, he does have a point”.

    I hate the 2006 Charles. He’s got blood on his hands.

  108. Notchabusiness :
    > The post clearly states that the excerpts are from Breivik’s manifesto. Your argument is with Breivik as to who he quotes.
    Learn to read.
    “Here are Anders Behring Breivik’s own unedited words as expressed in his “Manifesto.”
    “What is posted above are the thoughts and words of a madman, edited only for their relevance to Charles Johnson’s Little Green Footballs.”

    Aside from all of this blather, why do you consistently and deliberately evade the questions that have been posed to you?

  109. snowcrash says:

    BTR is on now. Chat looks like it is open too. Link if you want to lurk.
    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/flashchat/chat.aspx?HostUserURL=blogmocracy

  110. Bunk X says:

    beed :
    The 2011 version apparently never even met the 2006 version. The missed each other by a year. 2009, to be excact.

    Czech yinzbox. Quick.

  111. OldLineTexan says:

    snowcrash :This whole finger pointing thing is sick and distasteful.

    It’s really all that stalking son-of-a-bitch does these last few years.

  112. Notchabusiness :
    What’s funny is that people here seem to think of such irrational replies as convincing or meaningful.

    You don’t say…

  113. Notchabusiness :
    I haven’t come here to make excuses for the past LGF-F ties.

    Well, it’s a relief that you are here for something other than legalistic hair splitting.